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Discussion Starter #1
Been driving an Omega for the past three months and now going back to my trusty Cavalier.

Having grown used to the excellent sound quality in the Omega (suprising for the standard head unit), I would like to recreate this in the Cavalier. It has a Sony Head unit which is a Mini Disc unit - the one that can record.

I am guessing that I will need to upgrade the standard speakers, but I do not whant to chop away at the trim to fit. Ideally, I would like some good speakers to fit the standard aperatures.

I accept that an amp may be required, but I would rather not go down this route as I can not be hasseled with all the wiring and worrying about the current draw.

What do you guys think. Upgrade the speakers? Can I get speakers to fit the standard aperatures and, if so, from where? Any recomendations of speaker types?

Thanks
 
L

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To improve sound quality, amp the system and add a sub.

Changing speakers will be pointless as they will require more power to drive them. Normal headunit only will result in worse sound.

The installation of an amp and sub is not difficult (if you have pre-outs on the head unit). Time consuming, but not difficult.

The results are well worth the effort!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your replies.

Matt N, My Cav is a saloon.

laidback66 - if I amped the system AND changed the speakers would this be a better way of proceeding? I need to change the speakers anaway as they no longer handle the bass - it is almost as if they have blown if that makes any sense. Would you just amp the rears, leaving the head unit to drive the fronts?

What amp would you recommend and can it be mounted on the rear shelf OK? My existing head unit does have pre outs - two I think - but I may upgrade it with the Pioneer unit you have recommended in other posts.

Thanks again
 
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Amping and changing the speakers is the best way to go, if budget and time permit.

The distortion you are hearing could be due to the headunit simply not having enough power to supply the speakers cleanly.

I would amp the system and add the sub first, and listen to it.

Don't mount the amp on the rear shelf! :)

Amps should always be floor mounted if possible to allowthe best heat dissipation (remember heat rises, so mounting an amp upside down is really not good).

Amp make is personal choice and budget.
A 4x35w rms unit will do the job very nicely, sub is seperate setup.
I would recommend a decent secondhand unit like an Alpine/Kenwood/Pioneer.

You can run a 2 channel amp powering the fronts and running the rears off the headunit as "fill in sound."
Remember you are sitting in the front, so this is where the sound should be centred.

Subwoofer... you can go a number of ways on this, but I have an Infinity Basslink that is very very good, and for sale, that would do the job very well. :)

Do search for "basslink reviews" for more information.

As for the headunit, yes the Pioneer is an excellent choice, but the cost will quickly ramp up.

You not thought of doing all this in the Omega?
The Omega speakers are excellent and respond exteremely well to being amped. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks for that - I need to think hard about this amp business me thinks. Your sub that is for sale - is this on ebay?

If I were to keep the Omega, then I would leave it as it as the speakers are excellent as you say. I would, though, change the standard head unit and the multiplayer (mine's a CDX so has the autochanger). The Omega is soon to be up for sale not because there is anything wrong with - far from it - it is a lovely comfortable powerful car, but because I did not realise how much it likes visits to the petrol station!

Driving my Cavalier again today was like "going home". Just need to get this sound thing sorted.
 

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The Venga Bus is Coming
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if ur interested im selling my kenwood component speakers from my fronts soon...outta me cav

pm me if u want a cheap deal lol
cheers adam
 

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I Eat Speed
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Theres no point in keeping the original vauxhall speakers and getting an amp/sub in the boot, that'll just drown you with bass and you won't hear any music at all.

My cav sounded nice enough at first, then i took at the tape player and put in my cheapy MP3 cd player and it sounded better. After i while i bought 6x9's in the parcel shelf and some 6.5" front speakers, although an angle grinder was needed to make the speaker holes bigger in the front doors (Not the easiest job in the world)

Then i got a new MP3 CD player, one that was 50W RMS to each speaker not 35W, and all of a sudden it sounded twice as good. Then i also had the pre-outs so got an amp and sub in the boot and after that it's all just a job of playing with the head unit settings to make the speakers only produce treble and let the sub pump out the bass ;)

If you've blown the original speakers then you'll need to replace at least the front or rear ones. Also a new head unit will power them much better than the standard vauxhall one.
www.caraudiosecurity.com and www.caraudiocentre.co.uk
are sites i've used in the past and they've been fine.

Amping the original vauxhall speakers, if they're blown, is totally pointless. If they're not blown, amping them will certainly help as soon as you turn it up a bit loud. to be perfectly honest theres not even much point in amping replacement speakers as a new head unit will give out 45 or 50W to each speaker and even an amp running a couple of hundred W to each speaker isn't going to be that big of an improvement (unless you buy some damn nice speakers)
 

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aka wallop
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kneo_ghau said:
Theres no point in keeping the original vauxhall speakers and getting an amp/sub in the boot, that'll just drown you with bass and you won't hear any music at all.

My cav sounded nice enough at first, then i took at the tape player and put in my cheapy MP3 cd player and it sounded better. After i while i bought 6x9's in the parcel shelf and some 6.5" front speakers, although an angle grinder was needed to make the speaker holes bigger in the front doors (Not the easiest job in the world)

Then i got a new MP3 CD player, one that was 50W RMS to each speaker not 35W, and all of a sudden it sounded twice as good. Then i also had the pre-outs so got an amp and sub in the boot and after that it's all just a job of playing with the head unit settings to make the speakers only produce treble and let the sub pump out the bass ;)

If you've blown the original speakers then you'll need to replace at least the front or rear ones. Also a new head unit will power them much better than the standard vauxhall one.
www.caraudiosecurity.com and www.caraudiocentre.co.uk
are sites i've used in the past and they've been fine.

Amping the original vauxhall speakers, if they're blown, is totally pointless. If they're not blown, amping them will certainly help as soon as you turn it up a bit loud. to be perfectly honest theres not even much point in amping replacement speakers as a new head unit will give out 45 or 50W to each speaker and even an amp running a couple of hundred W to each speaker isn't going to be that big of an improvement (unless you buy some damn nice speakers)
never come across a cd/mp3 player with 50watts rms per channel, what make was it? :D :shake

lb66 seems to know his onions with regard to all things audio mate, would take heed of him.
ive heard quite a few systems from all out power (spl) to pure quality and to be honest you get what you pay for. but in laymans terms a well set-up head-unit with replacement speakers and an active sub in the boot is more than enough to please most people.
 

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Marks DTM Calib said:
Actulay amps should be mounted verticaly, you get pretty much no air flow over horizontal surfaces.
If the amp has no fans there won't be a good enough airflow in the boot to mount vertically - horizontally you get a larger surface area to dissipate heat more efficiently
 

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I Eat Speed
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CDX J said:
never come across a cd/mp3 player with 50watts rms per channel, what make was it? :D :shake
Meh i'm too used to saying "RMS" after people go
"my sub is 20000W max!!"
"yes but whats the RMS?"
"about 50W why?"
"cost you about £20 didn't it?"
"yeah why?"

Although it doesn't state the RMS of this head unit
http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/3436.html
it's gotta be fairly close :p
 

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sorry if this has been said already ( havent read all the thread )

if you want to recreate good sound quality the you need to do a few things

1/ amp the system
2/ add a sub ( only needs to be a 10" for your needs )
3/ upgrade the speakers if they sound bad at the mo you have prob damaged them
4/ DONT use 6x9 in the rear go for coax custom fit speakers ( if you decide to upgrade them at all )


to be honest your shopping list should contain

a pair of front comp speakers
a sub
a 4 channle amp ( you can use 2 channels to run the front comp and bridge the other 2 channels to power the sub )

hope this helps
 
L

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A few differences of opinion here. :)


I am not going to argue with Marks DTM on dissipation of heat! This is his area of work expertise! ;)
However boss I was saying that flat mounting will allow the heat to raise, allowing "best" dissipation with no external airflow.

If someone can please show me a headunit producing 50w rms per channel, I will be very interested (and so will much of the car audio industry! :lmao:)
That one you link to, 22w rms, nice (albeit overpriced) piece of kit.


Original speakers can repsond very well to being amped, the Omega for example has very good quality standard fit units.

If you have the money though, good aftermarket components are the way to go.

6x9's serve a purpose, but not in any car I own! ;)

The subwoofer would only drown out the other speakers if it was set up totally wrong. A sub is meant to compliment a system, adding depth to the music. Set up properly it justs blends in, if anything you would feel as though it was next to you. :)

I have learnt through experience that 35w x 4 (rms) is plenty for the components. I prefer quality over quantity.

Active subs, like the Infinity Basslink serve a purpose. They provide impressive amounts of bass that suffice most peoples needs.
Unless you want an extreme setup, it does the job VERY well. :)

And yes mine is for sale, but no, not on ebay yet.

What you want to do with the car audio setup is ultimately down to how much money you can afford to spend.
If money is tight, go for decent second hand over cheaper new items.

Give a figure, and we can help plan from there.
If you do go for new, speak to Japcav (Laura) first. She has availability to very good kit at very good prices and really does know her stuff.
 

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aka wallop
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speedy4888 said:
If the amp has no fans there won't be a good enough airflow in the boot to mount vertically - horizontally you get a larger surface area to dissipate heat more efficiently
No, air does not flow across a horizontal surface where as a Vertical surface will result in convection cooling. The cool air falls to the bottom of the boot area and the hot air rises, heat will then be lost through the body work etc.

This is something I have spent many years looking at in the telecoms industry!

Its simple basic stuff and easy to demonstrate.

As for power.

Consider this:

You Car supply is 12V nom. Assuming you have bridge amps (most headunnits use these for max output power) you get:

12V x 0.707 (this gives the RMS Voltage of the sine wave audio signal) = 8.484V

To get power: (8.484V x 8.484V) / 4ohm (the speaker impedance) = 18W RMS.

If we now assume a 13.8V supply we get approx 24W RMS.

This is the max you can get and wrongly assumes no loss in the supply cables, no volt drop in the amp output transistors etc etc. SO rule of thumb is 22W RMS max from a standard car supply.

If you want more than this then you have to use a DC-DC converter to increase the supply rail to a higher voltage, this is what a large seperate amp does....
 
L

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Marks DTM Calib said:
No, air does not flow across a horizontal surface where as a Vertical surface will result in convection cooling. The cool air falls to the bottom of the boot area and the hot air rises, heat will then be lost through the body work etc.

This is something I have spent many years looking at in the telecoms industry!

Its simple basic stuff and easy to demonstrate.

As for power.

Consider this:

You Car supply is 12V nom. Assuming you have bridge amps (most headunnits use these for max output power) you get:

12V x 0.707 (this gives the RMS of the sine wave audio signal) = 8.484

To get power: (8.484 x 8.484) / 4 (the speaker impedance) = 18W RMS.

If we now assume a 13.8V supply we get approx 24W RMS.

This is the max you can get and wrongly assumes no loss in the supply cables, no volt drop in the amp output transistors etc etc. SO rule of thumb is 22W RMS max from a standard car supply.

If you want more than this then you have to use a DC-DC converter to increase the supply rail to a higher voltage, this is what a large seperate amp does....
And that is why I did not argue with him! :lmao:

Although I should have remembered about convection cooling!! :shame:
 

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CDX J said:
sorry mate, it is'nt.

sorry my love but there is far to many on here that will agree it is incorrect

70 watts in the max figure there is ( as pointed out by resident amp expert mark dtm ) no way a sterio will produce that amount of rms power:eh
 

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Lol, just been lookin at the spec of that unit.

Its a classic, it describes the operating voltage as 14.4V (you wont get that at the back of the unit!)

It must have an internal charge pump (to raise the supply voltage) to get the rated 35W RMS per channel, this is failrly obvious as its killing the distortion figure.....0.8%! and a sig to noise of 70dB...thats awful... (charge pumps are noisey)

Frequency response is pretty limited to at 40hz-20Khz.
 
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