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Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter #1
4 years ago the VW groups high profile cheating of new car emissions tests rocked the automotive world & forever tarnished the image of diesel engined cars being clean on the emissions.
Move on to the present & the diesel engine is back in the news yet again for emissions.
The latest Euro 6d Temperature controlled diesel engined cars are supposed to be super clean , however that is now being disproved after tests found that during a regeneration of the DPF a Nissan Quashqai & a Opel Astra were between 32% to 115% over the legal limit of 600 billion particles per kilometre.
It’s emerged that during new diesel car emissions tests that the regeneration of exhaust emissions which can take over 15 kilometres of driving to complete are not figured into the actual emissions tests.
 

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CavWeb Hooker
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This doesn't seem to have been widely reported. Links here: New diesel cars exceed particle limits: EU environmental group
and: New diesels’ particle emissions spike to 1,000 times normal levels in tests | Transport & Environment

There's some misleading wording in the T&E link and I'd like to see more sources for some of their claims. That's not to say that I don't believe them, but, if they're making claims, they need more than one link/source.

They appear to be highlighting that emissions testing doesn't account for any pollutants emitted during/just after the cleaning cycle of the DPFs. They've probably got a point that it should be included and legislated for - so that we don't get diesel engines that are just very good at passing a test, but, the cars are happy to emit the pollutants during the cleaning cycle.

There's probably a lot more to it than that.

I'll do a bit more reading from them.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This doesn't seem to have been widely reported. Links here: New diesel cars exceed particle limits: EU environmental group
and: New diesels’ particle emissions spike to 1,000 times normal levels in tests | Transport & Environment

There's some misleading wording in the T&E link and I'd like to see more sources for some of their claims. That's not to say that I don't believe them, but, if they're making claims, they need more than one link/source.

They appear to be highlighting that emissions testing doesn't account for any pollutants emitted during/just after the cleaning cycle of the DPFs. They've probably got a point that it should be included and legislated for - so that we don't get diesel engines that are just very good at passing a test, but, the cars are happy to emit the pollutants during the cleaning cycle.

There's probably a lot more to it than that.

I'll do a bit more reading from them.
I always was of the opinion that emissions tests undertaken on these latest DPF temperature controlled diesels covered when the cleaning out of the DPF was being activated by the ECU , however based on what I’ve now read that appears to not be the case.
Thinking about it i should get in contact with the wife’s nephew at Gaydon research & testing centre , he’s over there at the moment working on a JLR project.
 

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CavWeb Hooker
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I always was of the opinion that emissions tests undertaken on these latest DPF temperature controlled diesels covered when the cleaning out of the DPF was being activated by the ECU , however based on what I’ve now read that appears to not be the case.
Correct. It seems to say that the testing is aborted if the engine is on a cleaning cycle and that won't count toward the overall score for the engine.
 

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Premium Member
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I always was of the opinion that emissions tests undertaken on these latest DPF temperature controlled diesels covered when the cleaning out of the DPF was being activated by the ECU , however based on what I’ve now read that appears to not be the case.
Thinking about it i should get in contact with the wife’s nephew at Gaydon research & testing centre , he’s over there at the moment working on a JLR project.
Not forgetting a modern dpf only cleans it's self out about once every 3-4 weeks or so driving average mileage. An average dpf Regen would also take less than 10 minutes to complete, probably around 7-8 on average. This was the case with my previous euro 6 Astra, about once every two weeks with my current euro 5 J.
A lot of the newer petrol cars have gas partical filters now too, but not exactly sure how this system works or whether it would also be included within the emission testing.
 

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Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter #6
Not forgetting a modern dpf only cleans it's self out about once every 3-4 weeks or so driving average mileage. An average dpf Regen would also take less than 10 minutes to complete, probably around 7-8 on average. This was the case with my previous euro 6 Astra, about once every two weeks with my current euro 5 J.
A lot of the newer petrol cars have gas partical filters now too, but not exactly sure how this system works or whether it would also be included within the emission testing.
The problem seems to be that during the regeneration process various sized particulates are emitted from the exhaust which stay in air for a good 30 minutes after the regeneration has completed.
About 1.3 billion regenerations are undertaken every year.
This is being highlighted as a cause for concern due to manufacturers saying that the latest Euro6d temperature controlled cars are cleaner than the Euro 5d cars.
If this test of 2 of Europes best selling diesel cars is in fact accurate & complete then changes would have to be enforced or yet again more Diesel engined cars could be dropped by manufacturers from their ranges as sales fall further.
 

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The problem seems to be that during the regeneration process various sized particulates are emitted from the exhaust which stay in air for a good 30 minutes after the regeneration has completed.
About 1.3 billion regenerations are undertaken every year.
This is being highlighted as a cause for concern due to manufacturers saying that the latest Euro6d temperature controlled cars are cleaner than the Euro 5d cars.
If this test of 2 of Europes best selling diesel cars is in fact accurate & complete then changes would have to be enforced or yet again more Diesel engined cars could be dropped by manufacturers from their ranges as sales fall further.
My regens take exactly 11 minutes:ROFLMAO:Just timed one, coming back from my garage this evening.
 

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Just think when they ban all diesel, petrol, kero etc devices from existing, that is the only way that emissions will be reduced, the oil companies etc etc will have lots of people jumping out of windows. Not to mention "how on earth the world will get about." All you people who spend their hard earned in foriegn countries will have to walk, good luck.
 

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My regens take exactly 11 minutes:ROFLMAO:Just timed one, coming back from my garage this evening.
You're lucky, my 2.2 Antara diesel has never done a regen in anything like that, more like 20 to 25 minutes. Last one I did it took 35 miles for some reason because I didn't floor it and drive it like it was stolen. How does it make any sense environmentally to fit cars with such a crude system where you burn gallons of fuel to clean the system out?

Does your car DPF have a system that uses EOLYS fluid?
 

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You're lucky, my 2.2 Antara diesel has never done a regen in anything like that, more like 20 to 25 minutes. Last one I did it took 35 miles for some reason because I didn't floor it and drive it like it was stolen. How does it make any sense environmentally to fit cars with such a crude system where you burn gallons of fuel to clean the system out?

Does your car DPF have a system that uses EOLYS fluid?
No does not have EOLYS fluid.
I don't need to floor my 2.0cdti for it to do a regen, just keep driving it and it completes a regens in around 10 mins, even around town. I tend to hold it at around 2k until it's finished, usually on b roads. I can usually guess within 2 days when one is due, although my retro fitted led regen light helps.
The Antara has a big lump of an 2.2d engine and it's pulling a lot of weight, which should help to keep the mpg down. We used to get 35mpg from our previous Landy 2.2 td4, without a dpf to worry about, probably similar weight to an Antara.
I remember talking to a vaux tec a while ago whilst my car was in for a service whilst under warranty and he said that the Antaras do take a little while longer to do a regen.
 

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This confirms what I've always thought about the emissions during regen. How can you possibly burn off the soot without creating more particles?
On some cars I see clouds of smoke coming out which I presume is due to a regen.

They need 2 DPF's the second one to catch the pollution when the first one is regenerating! ;)

I can see car manufactures abandoning diesel altogether as emission rules become impossible for them to meet.
 

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This confirms what I've always thought about the emissions during regen. How can you possibly burn off the soot without creating more particles?
On some cars I see clouds of smoke coming out which I presume is due to a regen.

They need 2 DPF's the second one to catch the pollution when the first one is regenerating! ;)

I can see car manufactures abandoning diesel altogether as emission rules become impossible for them to meet.
Adblue can help with secondary emissions. Oil burning tricks don't have dpf's, they can cover well over a million miles too.
Then you have to factor in the environmental issues related to replacing these failing dpf systems, replacing diesel engines well before their sell buy date, due to their failing add on complicated emission systems.
I'm all in favour of natural wastage when it comes to replacing cars, rather than replacing vehicles for the sake of it. Cars should also be built to last, not as disposable as they are now, full of tec, not built to last. Especially these newer inefficient smaller 3 pot turbo petrol engines. I can't see many of these on the road when they're 10 years plus old.
 
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