Vauxhall Owners Network Forum banner

41 - 60 of 60 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,956 Posts
That being the case, why isnt it as bad as they claim it would be? They claimed there would be 50 000 deaths a year, we are no where near that. Why try lockdown when it doesnt work?
Not sure why your thinking like you do but i can’t seem to make you realise what you want would cause more upset than what your moaning about now.
1/ lockdowns do halt the march of this virus
2/ to achieve herd immunity in say a country like the USA , you’d need 60% of the population to be infected , that would lead to over 1.2 million deaths minimum
3/ then there’s the long term health affects of people having mild Covid-19 symptoms during the initial positive diagnosis that go on to stay with them for the rest of their lives.
Still fancy contracting Covid -19 ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #42
Ok could this be the reason for keeping the lockdowns going.

The so called great reset, to keep climate change at bay by lockdown and economic disaster, I am beginning to think this is less about the virus than climate change. . .

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
we’ve had over 40,000 deaths in 7 months...so in a year it’s going to be up to 50,000 isn’t it?
Early on they were hoping to keep it under 20,000!
"
The UK has recorded 137 new deaths.

This takes the total number of people who have died within 28 days of a positive test to 43,155. But the dashboard says there have been at least 57,690 deaths where coronavirus was mentioned on the death certificate "

Mentioned on death certificate does not necessarily mean they died of Covid, rather with Covid as a part of others. This is a very different thing.

The deathrate is normal to UK.

There is no way to keep it under 20 000 when more than that die a year from other causes.

Lets question what we are told instead of accepting it.
 

·
Likes this.
Joined
·
11,184 Posts
That being the case, why isnt it as bad as they claim it would be? They claimed there would be 50 000 deaths a year, we are no where near that. Why try lockdown when it doesnt work?
As Alex has already said, we're likely to pass 50,000 within 12 months - we're not THAT far off already given that we're expecting it to get worse through winter as do all corona-type viruses.

The problem is, this government has failed miserably with Test and Trace. If that was working more effectively AND people were actually doing as they were told when told to self isolate if they are contacted about it instead of ignoring the instructions and carrying on, then yes, there probably would be no need for a full lockdown.

I don't have the answers. If I did I would be an adviser to the government earning a heck of a lot more than I do now, but surely it would make more sense to guarantee ANYONE who has to self isolate gets at least 90% of their income for the 14 days they are out of action? Trouble is, this sort of thing is open to abuse given the shoddy state of our testing and tracing program in the UK.

The only way we can stop the spread is to lock people down - because the current government are incapable of providing a working alternative. And the general public appear, on the whole, to be stupid.....
 

·
Likes this.
Joined
·
11,184 Posts
"
The UK has recorded 137 new deaths.

This takes the total number of people who have died within 28 days of a positive test to 43,155. But the dashboard says there have been at least 57,690 deaths where coronavirus was mentioned on the death certificate "

Mentioned on death certificate does not necessarily mean they died of Covid, rather with Covid as a part of others. This is a very different thing.

The deathrate is normal to UK.

There is no way to keep it under 20 000 when more than that die a year from other causes.

Lets question what we are told instead of accepting it.
You're ignoring the fact that genuinely healthy people that contract this virus and survive are now suffering and struggling to cope with basic day to day activities.

Are you prepared for a vast number of the workforce to be wiped out due to not being able to walk up some stairs, just to allow us to have our freedom??

It's not all about the death rate as far as I'm concerned. That's the headline news, the number of deaths - but what concerns me so much more is what's now being found about "long Covid" etc.

I'm still convinced I've already had it, back in March just before we locked down and I self isolated for the 7 days that was required back then. I'm still being careful just in case I didn't catch it, or just in case I did and I'm not immune to catching it again.

I don't want to be gasping for breath when I walk the dog just because I thought all of this was fake news........
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
Not sure why your thinking like you do but i can’t seem to make you realise what you want would cause more upset than what your moaning about now.
1/ lockdowns do halt the march of this virus
2/ to achieve herd immunity in say a country like the USA , you’d need 60% of the population to be infected , that would lead to over 1.2 million deaths minimum
3/ then there’s the long term health affects of people having mild Covid-19 symptoms during the initial positive diagnosis that go on to stay with them for the rest of their lives.
Still fancy contracting Covid -19 ?
I am simply concerned as I can see the proposed solution causing more harm than trying other methods like isolating the vulnerable only and letting the healthy be.

1/ lockdowns do halt the march of this virus

Man can not control a virus, but for the sake of argument assuming lockdown works, what evidence is there that it would just go away? By definition as soon as the lockdown has been lifted we will all get Covid again and then what? We lockdown again? Look at other epidemics in the past we lived through it and now live with it. There is no guaranty that the virus can be controlled even with a vacine as flu has shown.

2/ to achieve herd immunity in say a country like the USA , you’d need 60% of the population to be infected , that would lead to over 1.2 million deaths minimum

I can not see how you can say 1.2 million would die when there is a 95% recovery rate plus the deathrates are leveling now. The figures show Covid is not killing healthy people, your worst fears are based on a model that has now been proven wrong, lets get back to normal. . .

3/ then there’s the long term health affects of people having mild Covid-19 symptoms during the initial positive diagnosis that go on to stay with them for the rest of their lives.
Still fancy contracting Covid -19 ?


Again this is in the minority of the cases, the majority recover and dont even get sick from it.

Remember, cost benefit analysis. Is it worth letting thousands of other people die from controllable diseases to prevent covid? I simply think its not worth it.

Fred, I am not against any individual, I am simply very concerned that we are going to destroy our way of life just because we are scared of covid,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #47
As Alex has already said, we're likely to pass 50,000 within 12 months - we're not THAT far off already given that we're expecting it to get worse through winter as do all corona-type viruses.

The problem is, this government has failed miserably with Test and Trace. If that was working more effectively AND people were actually doing as they were told when told to self isolate if they are contacted about it instead of ignoring the instructions and carrying on, then yes, there probably would be no need for a full lockdown.

I don't have the answers. If I did I would be an adviser to the government earning a heck of a lot more than I do now, but surely it would make more sense to guarantee ANYONE who has to self isolate gets at least 90% of their income for the 14 days they are out of action? Trouble is, this sort of thing is open to abuse given the shoddy state of our testing and tracing program in the UK.

The only way we can stop the spread is to lock people down - because the current government are incapable of providing a working alternative. And the general public appear, on the whole, to be stupid.....
I would contest the 50 000 figure as the way they measure the deathrate includes cases which have nothing to do with covid, be it someone being hot by a bus after getting covid, etc.

I do not think track and trace would work as all it would do is control the populous. The main question is can man control a virus, I do not think so, I think this is where we differ.

There are alternatives out there like Great Barrington Declaration (GBD) where over 2000 scientists, doctors and epidemiologists have signed and proposed an alternative by isolating the vulnerable and releasing the healthy. This was rejected by the government.

I dont think we should even try to stop the spread purely based on other epidemics, this might be something we all have to live with. . .
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
You're ignoring the fact that genuinely healthy people that contract this virus and survive are now suffering and struggling to cope with basic day to day activities.

Are you prepared for a vast number of the workforce to be wiped out due to not being able to walk up some stairs, just to allow us to have our freedom??

It's not all about the death rate as far as I'm concerned. That's the headline news, the number of deaths - but what concerns me so much more is what's now being found about "long Covid" etc.

I'm still convinced I've already had it, back in March just before we locked down and I self isolated for the 7 days that was required back then. I'm still being careful just in case I didn't catch it, or just in case I did and I'm not immune to catching it again.

I don't want to be gasping for breath when I walk the dog just because I thought all of this was fake news........
I hear your concerns but again this applies to the minority of cases. The vast majority, a.k.a over 95% dont have this problem even after getting covid.

Based on this surely its wise to try something else?

Having lived in a country with a lot less freedoms I can confidently say we will regret letting go of freedom for the sake of safety, you dont get freedom back easily once you give it up. Last time it took over 100 years to get it back . . .
 

·
Likes this.
Joined
·
11,184 Posts
My opinion, and it could well be wrong (I am sometimes :ROFLMAO: ) - I believe that a properly working Test, Track and Trace system that the public are LEGALLY OBLIGED TO FOLLOW is far less controlling to the population than constant lockdowns and curfews.

Now maybe they have purposely created a sh*tty system so they can implement their chosen social control measures instead?

The bottom line is though, nobody knows just how badly this would affect the population if left to its own devices. And I'm honestly not sure if it's worth the risk that you (Edna) seem to think it is.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #51
My opinion, and it could well be wrong (I am sometimes :ROFLMAO: ) - I believe that a properly working Test, Track and Trace system that the public are LEGALLY OBLIGED TO FOLLOW is far less controlling to the population than constant lockdowns and curfews.

Now maybe they have purposely created a sh*tty system so they can implement their chosen social control measures instead?

The bottom line is though, nobody knows just how badly this would affect the population if left to its own devices. And I'm honestly not sure if it's worth the risk that you (Edna) seem to think it is.

I believe that a properly working Test, Track and Trace system that the public are LEGALLY OBLIGED TO FOLLOW is far less controlling to the population than constant lockdowns and curfews.


The reason I am scared of this is that we have an example of how this works, its called China. If you dont follow what the government says you get punished, be it you are not allowed to travel, buy or sell, etc. That is scary. And worst of all there is no evidence that once the system starts that they would ever take it away as we see with airport security thanks to 9/11.
What if the virus stays with us for ever, are you happy to comply as rules change? What if they say you have to buy an electric car or otherwise you arent allowed to buy and sell?
Due to human nature too much can go wrong here. . .

The bottom line is though, nobody knows just how badly this would affect the population if left to its own devices.

Steve this is the ultimate question, is the right thing to allow people to do their own thing and let people take risk or do we control the population in the name of minimizing risk as the powers at be know how to live our lives better than we do?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #52
I don’t think you understand the death rate or how track and trace works.
I got a rough idea but ofcource could be wrong. All I know is if between april and now they have changed the way they record Covid deaths gives me enough reason to be skeptical. . .
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,956 Posts
I got a rough idea but ofcource could be wrong. All I know is if between april and now they have changed the way they record Covid deaths gives me enough reason to be skeptical. . .
Ok let me speak from my experience.
I contracted Covid -19 last Wednesday & I’m still not back to my normal self , as i write this I’m back in bed.
I’ve still got my cough & I’ve been left with ringing in my ears & still suffer with a headache at some point every day since i caught the virus.
I’ve not got my strength back yet & my arms & legs continually ache still every day , I’m not sure when I’ll feel myself again at this moment & I’ve now got to worry about my wife who so far seems ok but who knows if that may suddenly change.
I’m reasonably fit & healthy for my age but still 8 days on still under the weather.
Thankfully i climb the stairs without feeling out of breathe.
My contracting of the virus was caused by someone ignoring the test & trace & refusing to self isolate knowing they had a positive case of Covid-19 in their family.
So within a few days that 1 person infected 10 of us & put us all out of action for 2 weeks plus , then not forgetting any long term health affects Covid-19 may leave us all with.
You may want to let this virus run out of control but you’ve no idea what your messing with here , you’d be committing mass murder for a starter & then saddle a world with many long term illnesses from surviving Covid-19.
If you can Edna , avoid catching it because you don’t know how it will affect your body until you’ve got it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,026 Posts
Discussion Starter #54
Ok let me speak from my experience.
I contracted Covid -19 last Wednesday & I’m still not back to my normal self , as i write this I’m back in bed.
I’ve still got my cough & I’ve been left with ringing in my ears & still suffer with a headache at some point every day since i caught the virus.
I’ve not got my strength back yet & my arms & legs continually ache still every day , I’m not sure when I’ll feel myself again at this moment & I’ve now got to worry about my wife who so far seems ok but who knows if that may suddenly change.
I’m reasonably fit & healthy for my age but still 8 days on still under the weather.
Thankfully i climb the stairs without feeling out of breathe.
My contracting of the virus was caused by someone ignoring the test & trace & refusing to self isolate knowing they had a positive case of Covid-19 in their family.
So within a few days that 1 person infected 10 of us & put us all out of action for 2 weeks plus , then not forgetting any long term health affects Covid-19 may leave us all with.
You may want to let this virus run out of control but you’ve no idea what your messing with here , you’d be committing mass murder for a starter & then saddle a world with many long term illnesses from surviving Covid-19.
If you can Edna , avoid catching it because you don’t know how it will affect your body until you’ve got it.
Fred I am so sorry you are going through this and I will pray for you.

I am in no way minimizing this virus and am not one of those who claim it is a hoax but looking at UK as a whole there is a decision that must be made. I do not think we can prevent this virus from spreading completely. I do not think there will ever be a cure. Based on this what I think we should do is look at solutions and compare it with the cost. We can lockdown but as I said once we re open it will spread again, so we will need to stay lockdown forever.
A reasonable alternative would be to apply common sense, isolate the vulnerable, if someone catches it isolate them but let society get back to normality. I fear we will have a crash so bad that I do not see how society would work. That I think is too high of a price to pay to get rid of Covid.

We both want to defeat Covid, the question is what is the best way to do it.

All the best Fred.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,821 Posts
My question is if it is as bad as they say why do they need to redefine what is meant by a person who is hospitalized, a person who has Covid versus someone who has died with Covid, why is the message constantly changing from flatten the curve to save our NHS to tackle Covid to eliminate it?

Sorry guys it is just a rant but I smell a rat.
Well, conspiracy theories and religion operate in much the same way and fulfill the same need in many people.... I have oft remarked that conspiracy theories are the religion of the internet age.
I dont think I need to explore that particular line of reasoning any further.... enough said.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,956 Posts
Just had a email from my manager.
We’ve now got a full month off to make sure no one is incubating the virus , she’s also asked us not to think we’re invincible now we’ve caught the virus as new evidence shows you can get reinfected further down the line.
So when we do go back into work things will be as strict as before regarding PPE & social distancing & maintaining hygiene.
The wife’s now got it so must isolate until the 23rd of this month.
So we’ve all been given time to get back to how we were before Covid -19 infected us all.
I’ve still a loss of appetite & things just don’t have any taste , my headache is calming down & I’m moving about ok , so fingers crossed 🤞
 
  • Like
Reactions: andy_v

·
Well-known member
Joined
·
13,841 Posts
I'm no longer on recuperative duties. I'm now on a week off where I am supposed to be in Haverfordwest enjoying myself with the girlfriend. Instead I will be marmalising more bamboo. Not quite the same as a child free break with a hot tub.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,305 Posts
Just had a email from my manager.
We’ve now got a full month off to make sure no one is incubating the virus , she’s also asked us not to think we’re invincible now we’ve caught the virus as new evidence shows you can get reinfected further down the line.
So when we do go back into work things will be as strict as before regarding PPE & social distancing & maintaining hygiene.
The wife’s now got it so must isolate until the 23rd of this month.
So we’ve all been given time to get back to how we were before Covid -19 infected us all.
I’ve still a loss of appetite & things just don’t have any taste , my headache is calming down & I’m moving about ok , so fingers crossed 🤞
Hope all goes well for you and your family Andy.
I had an anti body test last week working within the care industry, had a negative result. Although I do expect to catch it at some point, not if, but when.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,956 Posts
I finally had the phone call from the track & trace lady , we we’re on the phone for 30 minutes.
I asked her why the wife’s phone app hadn’t changed to tell her to isolate & she could not explain why that should be.
Looks like the app has a time lag , as soon as i put my positive test result into my phone it should have pinged on the wife’s phone straightaway but it took 3 days to tell her she should isolate due to me being positive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Boroboy
41 - 60 of 60 Posts
Top