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Discussion Starter #1
Hi

My 1.9 CDTi Vectra C has been struggling to start recently, it turns over but won't start. Eventually, it'll either start or run down the battery and I'll need to jump it. I put the Opcom on it this evening and there are several fault codes (may or may not be related to the starting problem):

U2105-07 CAN-Bus ECM Message Range / Performance
U2139-00 CAN-Bus No Communication with CIM (Steering Column Module)
U2103-00 No Communication with CAN-Bus (Low speed)
B1325-03 System Voltage Low Voltage

Any thoughts? Is there a short somewhere?

Thanks
 

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I think the CAN bus has all the modules connected in Parallel, you could try disconnecting the other modules all but the engine ecu and see if it will start like that...a fault on any of the modules could cause it not to start....if your ok with a scope you can check the CAN bus high and low with a scope at the eobd socket...from Fred in Essex.
 

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As Fred mentioned above , if your CIM module has failed then the communication will not be possible with the other modules ( UEHC , REC & IPC ) & authorisation to start will not be given .
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the replies all.

I just started it there and it took 6-7s of cranking before it started:

12.7v before cranking (maybe a little low as it hasn't been driven today but has only been started several times)
9.9/10v while cranking
13.7/8v while running

No new codes generated.

@ g4vvq1983 & Fred Bassett TBH, I don't fully understand the CAN-Bus so I guess I need to read up a little on that to get what you're referring to above.
 

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Thanks for the replies all.

I just started it there and it took 6-7s of cranking before it started:

12.7v before cranking (maybe a little low as it hasn't been driven today but has only been started several times)
9.9/10v while cranking
13.7/8v while running

No new codes generated.

@ g4vvq1983 & Fred Bassett TBH, I don't fully understand the CAN-Bus so I guess I need to read up a little on that to get what you're referring to above.
You only need a loose connection between modules to see a can bus code appear.
Two years ago i lost most of my power steering & the spanner through car warning light illuminated .
Took the car down to the lads & they read the fault codes & found some relating to no communications on the can bus , turned out the plug from the abs pump had worked itself loose & the pump had stopped receiving the pulses coming off the abs to tell the pump motor how much assistance to give on the steering .
Connection made good & everything went back to normal .
 
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HS can is 6 & 14
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Just an update on this - the problem has disappeared. It's been starting perfectly since that evening and no new fault codes.

I presume it'll reappear at the most inopportune time of course.......
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So this problem is back again :-( Has failed to start the last two times and needed to be jumped.

After driving it home, I left it to run for a 4-5mins with the lights, etc. off. After 1-2h, I went out and before I started it, I checked the battery - 12.3/12.4V. I was expecting it to not start or at least struggle but it started first time (perhaps because it was still warm?). When I checked the battery immediately after that with the engine still running (no lights, no radio, etc.), it's only showing 11.8V (I verified that my multimeter was working by checking another car battery, 14.2V while running). After 3-4 mins, it's showing 12.8V. Then I turned the engine off and restarted, no problem again.

So this looks to me like the battery isn't getting charged? A bad connection between the alternator and battery? Or the alternator is gone?

OR is the problem likely to be related to all the new fault codes that are on the car? (None active on this start)

CIM (2)
B3700-0F Wiper Interval Circuit Malfunction
B3794-08 Switch Cruise Control Malfunction

EHPS (Electro-Hyrdaulic Power Steering) (2)
C1550-37 Replace ECU
U2139-00 CAN-bus No Communication with CIM (Steering Column Module)

Body Control (1)
U2103-00 No Communication with CAN-bus (Low speed)

Underhood Electrical Control (1)
U2103-00 No Communication with CAN-bus (Low speed)

Driver Door (6)
B1325-03 System Voltage Low Voltage
B1330-00 System Voltage Malfunction
U2103-00 No Communication with CAN-bus (Low speed)
B1605-01 Driver Mirror Horizontal Motor Circuit High Voltage
B3849-01 Driver Mirror Horizontal/Vertical Motor Circuit High Voltage
B1600-01 Driver Mirror Vertical Motor Circuit High Voltage

Passenger Door (6)
B1325-03 System Voltage Low Voltage
B1330-00 System Voltage Malfunction
U2103-00 No Communication with CAN-bus (Low speed)
B1605-01 Passenger Mirror Horizontal Motor Circuit High Voltage
B3849-01 Passenger Mirror Horizontal/Vertical Motor Circuit High Voltage
B1600-01 Passenger Mirror Vertical Motor Circuit High Voltage

Entertainment Head Unit (1)
U2201-00 No Communication with EHU (Entertainment Head Unit)
 

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Yes if its the one i am thinking of, like the picture there, that is the eobd connector when you plug in an analyzer, but yes you can check the resistance as the picture....i think its the 11 and 3, it could be the other two, but one or the other should have 60 ohms across the....Fred.
 

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Lots of voltage codes there (high and low) it may be that the battery cannot supply enough power when under load,
i know you've done some voltage checks but it may not be able to supply enough grunt ,so either get the battery high rate discharge tested
(free at Halfords) or check the battery voltage with a m/m while cranking to see what you have.
 

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I've seen EHPS faults short out the high speed bus before too, causing a complete no start. You can unplug the EHPS connector block when the fault occurs to see if this restores the rest of the car to a functional state.

@g4vvq1983 (Fred's) info is nearly there. Pins 6&14 on the diagnostic plug are the high and low speed wires for the HSCAN network (this is for all the engine/ABS/steering related stuff), pins 3&11 for MSCAN (Mid speed bus). Measuring across both of these sets of pins with a multimeter with the igntion off should return a resistance of circa 60ohms.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I did some work on this over Christmas - replaced the alternator (with a second hand one) and the problem with starting was fixed immediately......until last weekend when the battery was completely dead out of the blue, just a click when I turned the ignition. I jumped it anyway and it started okay so I assumed something was drawing on the battery.

However, when I check the battery voltage while the car is running, it's only 12.4 - 12.8V. So has the replaced alternator started to fail? Or could there be something putting a massive draw on the battery resulting in the low voltage reading?

I haven't made any progress on the CAN-BUS faults however and I'm wondering if they are related to the problem with starting.

@g4vvq1983 (Fred's) info is nearly there. Pins 6&14 on the diagnostic plug are the high and low speed wires for the HSCAN network (this is for all the engine/ABS/steering related stuff), pins 3&11 for MSCAN (Mid speed bus). Measuring across both of these sets of pins with a multimeter with the igntion off should return a resistance of circa 60ohms.
I've tried this but wasn't able to get any resistance reading - do I need to pull off the little connector? Or should I use a piece of wire to get down past the plastic housing above the pins?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
One other question, is it possible to test the voltage at the alternator? Would I need to unplug the little connector on it and place the multimeter lead on the pin?
 

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Hi there you should be able to get a resistance reading by putting an ohm meter across the relevant pins on the eobd socket, think it should read 60 ohms, if it reads 120 ohms you have a problem, if you dont get a reading at all you have a aproblem, like an open circuit, you must have all the modules plugged in when you take the reading..to test the voltage at the alternator put a voltmeter on the big fat wire terminal, run it to about 2000 rpm and it should read same as battery voltage, about 13.9 to 14.7 volts DC, i advise you dont run the alternator with any of the wires disconnected...definitely dont disconnect the battery with it running you could fry the engine ecu and other things....from Fred in Essex.
 

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I did some work on this over Christmas - replaced the alternator (with a second hand one) and the problem with starting was fixed immediately......until last weekend when the battery was completely dead out of the blue, just a click when I turned the ignition. I jumped it anyway and it started okay so I assumed something was drawing on the battery.

However, when I check the battery voltage while the car is running, it's only 12.4 - 12.8V. So has the replaced alternator started to fail? Or could there be something putting a massive draw on the battery resulting in the low voltage reading?

I haven't made any progress on the CAN-BUS faults however and I'm wondering if they are related to the problem with starting.



I've tried this but wasn't able to get any resistance reading - do I need to pull off the little connector? Or should I use a piece of wire to get down past the plastic housing above the pins?
Yes you may well have to take the grey plastic cover off if you're not accessing the pins properly.

Recheck the charging of the alternator once the battery has been replaced and report back.
 
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