[bar72]

Hi All.

Managed to get shoes changed today. Nearside also needed new self adjuster and wheel cylinder. Bled brakes no problem and had car out for a spin with handbrake still backed off at the 10mm bolt inside the car.

Car brakes nice and even, no pulling to one side or anything.

Starts to tighten bolt to get handbrake adjusted, 2 clicks, offside wheel is binding, 3 clicks offside is locked solid, checked Nearside and wheel is binding but not locked?

When I initially pumped the pedal, I could hear the offside adjuster clicking up. Same with nearside (with the new adjuster).

Checked handbrake for movement at shoes on both sides and the cable does pull on the adjuster which moves the leading shoes.

Anything I've missed?

Any ideas, thanks

 

[M32Guy]

Lips on the drums?

 

[bar72]

Thanks M32Guy. Never even gave it a thought. I take it if there's a lip then shoe is biting lip and not drum, on the side that ain't holding??? Drums are pretty tired but I didn't pay attention. I'm back on it first thing tomorrow as just managed to get a shot of axle stands tonight instead of doing 1 wheel at a time with trolley jack.

 

[M32Guy]

That's my thinking. I'd back of the 10mm bolt. Remove the drums, take off any lip then manually adjust them at the hubs so they are just catching and no more. That way you know they are both at the same point. Then take up any remaining slack in the cable with the 10mm

 

[g4vvq1983]

You need to get the leverage the same on both sides, if it has drums....let cable off reset self adjusters....Fred.

 

[bar72]

thank you M32Guy / Fred. I'm currently taking the lip of the Nearside Drum the now with a file.

I have wound adjusters completely back in for the moment and another thing I'm noticing is that when I retest the handbrake cable, the trailing shoe handbrake lever on the Offside isn't returning as far back as the lever on the Nearside? (see pic).

Can this be that the handbrake cable may be seized at the offside also. If I use a screwdriver on the lever it will return to the trailing shoe?

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[g4vvq1983]

Yes that lever is far to far forward, its prob adjuster not working on shoes and someone has adjusted the cable to compensate, and that is what happens....trust me on this you need to let the cables right off until you get a load of slack in them, then force those levers on the shoes right back as far as you can, if there seized on the pivot of the she you will have to free them off....then reset the self adjusters by levering the shoes apart until the drum will just fit on without binding, THEN reset the clable with drums on, until the lever inside feels ok and it should work normally....i have done tons of this sort of stuff.....Fred.

 

[g4vvq1983]

 

[bar72]

thank you Fred. OK, I have unscrewed the 10mm bolt at the handbrake inside the car so the cable is very slack (10mm nut is nearly of threaded rod). I've manually set auto adjusters on both sides at shoes until brakes start binding, backed off adjuster 2 clicks on both sides. Pulled up handbrake about 10 clicks to get a bite and now problem reversed? Nearside wheel is solid and offside is turning (opposite to original imbalance).

Can the 2nd part of the handbrake cable (the part that goes from the shoes to the single cable that goes to handbrake lever) be adjusted on a per side basis?

Think I'm trying to say that has someone managed to adjust handbrake at nearside and offside seperately or do you mean they've taken up the slack at the 10mm bolt at handbrake lever in the car?

Thanks Again

 

[andy_v]

no sign of any copper grease on them brakes hope ya put some on when ya sorted

the way i do mine on me corsa c is,

after refitting new shoes would be, assuming you have put the adjusters in the right way for them to work ( i have put one in the wrong way before a day before mot, and it past.
make sure ya have a free rotating drum with the handbrake backed right off at the adjuster,( like you have done )
press the brake pedal at least 10 times, to center the shoes, check that drums are still free rotating pull handbrake up (3) clicks, recheck drums still free spin,
now tighten adjuster on handbrake lever, till you have to use a bit of force to turn the drums by hand, make sure both wheels are equal, now if ya pull ya hand brake up (7) clicks they should lock up and ya should not be able to turn them,
also all cable guides should be free moving with plenty of copper grease on them and cable.

hope this helps

works for me

 

[g4vvq1983]

Hi there well your pretty much getting there, you may have worn drums, i think its self compensating from what i can remember i think there is probably one cable from the handbarke to the rear axle area then one bit from each side, but where they join its kinda free floating, so it should equal itself out....if everything is free and not seized and you have adjusted the auto adjusters as close as you can before binding there isn't much else you can do, if the drums are worn different each side that can effect the leverage to a degree, i would ruff them up well with emery cloth, try changing the drums side to side that can make difference...but remember one thing, if with the hand brake right on you can turn it even just a little bit, on a rolling road it will be crap....i would reset the cable adjusted so it comes up 2 or 3 notches etc....what ever feels right....i assume there is no sign of any fluid leaks of any kind on the shoes...you could ruff the linings up as well...hope that helps...perhaps they would let you try it on the rollers before you take it for a retest. etc.....hope that helps from Fred.

 

[bar72]

Thank You for the info andy_v. I assume the cogged ratchet bit on the adjuster is nearest the lead shoe (towards front of car) and the longest fork to the outside of brake shoe? Yes, I put copper slip on all the boss points where the shoes touch the backplates ; Tried just putting on drums, pumping pedal 20 odd times (can hear adjusters clicking) until adjusters stops clicking, pulled handbrake up 3 clicks then tighten 10mm bolt but only 1 wheel binds while the other spins freely. Went and got axle stands last night so I could get both wheels off at once, went under and got wife to pull handbrake up and down, all seems to go back and forth OK. Even took her for a burn last night and gave her a couple of hefty braking sessions in forward and reverse, no probs, just can't get both wheels to bite on handbrake. Ground of lip on both discs (not perfect but much better than they were). Tried manually adjusting adjusters and wheels that bind and don't bind are in reverse now. Still, thank you again for your suggestion, at least I can show wife that I'm not a complete tit and doing it wrong ;

Fred, thank you for the extra info, I'm going to try reverse drums, as you suggest and see what happens, possibly even replace them and handbrake cable as I'm starting to think cable may be stretched on one side and causing the imbalance as I've done everything else by the book.

No fluid leaks, replaced seized wheel cylinder & adjuster on n/side yesterday then bled brakes, no leaks anywhere ;

I'lll leave thread open until I solve it, just in case anyone else is having similar issue. The rain is bouncing down up here for the day now so operation's cancelled until tomorrow.

 

[andy_v]

when the rain stops now ya got the back end off the floor, i would get under the car while your good wife operates the handbrake (leave the drums on) and have a really good look at how the cables are operating.

 

[bar72]

Defo. Gonna lager the cable where the drum backplate is with copper slip and check for frays in the cable. Just been at my local autofactor for pair of drums. £67 for the pair so as well to replace them seeing as I've changed everything else, bar the handbrake cable ;

 

[andy_v]

bargain

 

[bar72]

Got to the bottom of the uneven handbrake. Get's under again today and after a look at the handbrake cable compensator plate, I noticed it was seized and not delivering equal amounts of cable to each rear drum. The grease had dried out and was rock solid. Managed to free it up with some Industrial Cleaning spray then removed the front cable from the compensator, covered it in copper slip, covered each of the drum cables then same again where cable comes through drums. Now I got equal length of cable at shoes and both wheels biting when they should.

Just been for a 60 mile run and running fine.

A big Thank You again to everyone for helping me with this.

 

[g4vvq1983]

Yes that would do it, well done....by the way on MOT the handbrake doesn't have to be balanced it just has to be at least 17% i think it is, and look as if its working property on both wheels...Fred.

 

[Koicarpkeeper]

Good find on the compensator.
Think there is a figure that has to be met for the imbalance in the rear wheels, sure one of the testers can confirm that.

 

[M32Guy]

Not for the handbrake on a dual line braking system. As long as both sides have a reasonable effort and it achieves at least 16% brake effort (or both wheels lock) then it's a pass

 

[Koicarpkeeper]

Must have had the pre dual-circuit rules in my head then when the handbrake was still your emergency brake. Not that it was much use though as I found out when a brand new master cylinder failed 3 days after it was fitted.