Vauxhall Owners Network Forum banner

21 - 36 of 36 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
My vectra cdti was doing this. Did the same tests you did. Turned out to be the camshaft sencor. But all my troubles was fro. Cold start only. Bunged some etha down its snout and fired straight away from cold and then would start all day until I left it more than 5 hours to go cold...didnt get this come up on opcom untill day 5 of scanning and looking for faults though
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fred Bassett

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
yeah thats been elimated as swapped out with the other van i was comparing readings with along with fuel pressure sensor and map sensor, when it finally starts it runs and pulls fine, still playing with it, gonna change the glowplug controller as everything starting realated to diesal is either fuel which ive got, compression which ive got or glowplugs, they have been changed, I've got voltage but maybe not the amps, i cant measure that and the controllers are cheap so got nothing to lose, fun puzzle
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,555 Posts
Lazy pump/air getting sucked back in to the fuel lines via a weak seal, lazy starter will also do this.. An old vectra 2.0 dti of mine cranked for 20 or more minutes before it fired up one morning so instantly I changed the glow plugs.. Did the same the next morning 🙄 new starter and away it went again every day for 5 years 🤦‍♂️ hope you get it sorted 👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fred Bassett

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,956 Posts
Lazy pump/air getting sucked back in to the fuel lines via a weak seal, lazy starter will also do this.. An old vectra 2.0 dti of mine cranked for 20 or more minutes before it fired up one morning so instantly I changed the glow plugs.. Did the same the next morning 🙄 new starter and away it went again every day for 5 years 🤦‍♂️ hope you get it sorted 👍
Agreed after reading these posts i think it’s an inconsistent starter motor , especially has it fires up with a bump start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
Agreed after reading these posts i think it’s an inconsistent starter motor , especially has it fires up with a bump start.
also fires up after cranking for a while, and started even better although with a rough idle if you disocnnect the fuel rail pressure sensor, thats been swapped out so thats been elimated, ive got pretty good rpm on crank, think min req is 140rpm and it was over that but one i get it connected back up as trying the glowcoil relay ill recheck the start rpm, pretty sure when i compared with the working van it was the same, i think the only reason it started with the bump start is that we had been cranking until it wouldnt crank anymore due to low battery so the bump start had a head start, all fun, sofar its only cost time aparts from the relay which is £30, if that dont work ill keep in my stock as I've had quiet a few combos to repair and this is the only one thats giving me the runaround
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,956 Posts
also fires up after cranking for a while, and started even better although with a rough idle if you disocnnect the fuel rail pressure sensor, thats been swapped out so thats been elimated, ive got pretty good rpm on crank, think min req is 140rpm and it was over that but one i get it connected back up as trying the glowcoil relay ill recheck the start rpm, pretty sure when i compared with the working van it was the same, i think the only reason it started with the bump start is that we had been cranking until it wouldnt crank anymore due to low battery so the bump start had a head start, all fun, sofar its only cost time aparts from the relay which is £30, if that dont work ill keep in my stock as I've had quiet a few combos to repair and this is the only one thats giving me the runaround
I’m sure it needs to be higher than that (140) the starter motor needs to throw the flywheel over fast enough to build up the required fuel pressure to get the engine to start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Yes, i sure i read that the minimun required and also sure it was over that, hiting fuel rail pressure in about 3 sec but ill get the glowplug relay in and recheck, wont run atm as ecu removed to get glowplug relay out, why they stuck it between fuse box and body is beyond me, plenty room to stick it elseware
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Been playing with the live data feature, interesting results, what im seeing is ieven though the battery is cranking, its voltage is dropping, i cranked for 21secs, stopped then restarted and the damn thing started but the data didnt capture
cranking didnt start until 5.5 secs, you can see a corrosponding voltage drop and rpm starting to be recorded, this was a fully chraged battery but it looks like its struggling

TimeBattery VoltageIgnition StatusMain RelayFuel Pump RelayAPP Sensor 1 (Accelerator Pedal Position)APP Sensor 2 (Accelerator Pedal Position)Calculated Pedal PositionAPP at Idle Position (Accelerator Pedal Position)Desired Idle SpeedEngine SpeedMass Air Flow SensorBarometric PressureBarometric PressureBoost PressureBoost PressureEGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation)EGR Pulse Ratio (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)Desired Common Rail Fuel PressureCommon Rail Fuel PressureRail Pressure Control ValveDifferential Pressure Diesel Particulate FilterDifferential Pressure Diesel Particulate FilterB1S1 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)B1S1 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 1)B1S2 Exhaust Gas Temperature (Bank 1 Sensor 2)B1S2 EGT (B1S1)DPF SaturationGlow Time TelltaleDPF Flow Resistance (Diesel Particulate Filter)
secVVV%RPMRPMkg/hkPaVkPaV%MPaMPa%VkPaV°CV°C%Pa/m3/h
0.03​
12.5​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
0​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
654.95​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
10​
53​
Off 12V
0​
0.81​
12.5​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
0​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
654.95​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
10​
53​
Off 12V
0​
1.59​
12.5​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
0​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
654.95​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
2.37​
12.5​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
0​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
654.95​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
10​
53​
Off 12V
0​
3.16​
12.5​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
0​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
654.95​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
10​
53​
Off 12V
0​
3.94​
12.5​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
0​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
654.95​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
10​
53​
Off 12V
0​
4.72​
12.5​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
0​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
654.95​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
10​
53​
Off 12V
0​
5.5​
11​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
0​
0​
4​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
0​
8.8​
44​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
6.28​
10.5​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
177​
5​
101​
3.84​
102​
1.9​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
23​
46​
0.35​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
7.06​
10.4​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
189​
6​
101​
3.84​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
40.8​
31​
0.41​
0​
5​
15​
0.86​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
7.84​
11​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
273​
5​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
38.4​
25​
0.37​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
8.61​
10.7​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
200​
4​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.88​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
39.4​
25​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
9.39​
10.7​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
304​
6​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37.8​
25​
0.49​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
10.17​
10.7​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
296​
7​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.9​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37.4​
25​
0.41​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
15​
53​
Off 12V
0​
10.95​
10.7​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
235​
6​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
38.2​
25​
0.35​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
11.73​
10.8​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
331​
7​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37.4​
25​
0.45​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
12.51​
11​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
330​
10​
101​
3.84​
102​
1.94​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
38​
24​
0.45​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
13.3​
11.1​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
244​
9​
101​
3.84​
102​
1.94​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
39.4​
24​
0.41​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
14.08​
10.7​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
253​
6​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.9​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37.2​
25​
0.35​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
14.86​
11​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
239​
7​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
39.2​
25​
0.49​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
15.64​
11.1​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
302​
6​
101​
3.84​
102​
1.88​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
38.4​
24​
0.33​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
16.42​
11.1​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
307​
7​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.88​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37.2​
25​
0.47​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
17.2​
10.9​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
310​
9​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37​
24​
0.41​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
17.98​
11.3​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
358​
9​
101​
3.84​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
39​
24​
0.31​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
18.76​
11.2​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
361​
8​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.9​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
38.6​
24​
0.33​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
19.55​
11.3​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
357​
7​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.86​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
38.2​
24​
0.47​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
20.33​
11.2​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
353​
7​
101​
3.84​
102​
1.88​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37.8​
24​
0.45​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
21.11​
11​
On 12VActiveActive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
357​
11​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.94​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
37​
25​
0.31​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
21.89​
11.9​
On 12VActiveInactive
0.96​
0.47​
0​
Active
900​
0​
1​
101​
3.82​
102​
1.92​
Inactive
2​
37.2​
4.6​
1​
0.39​
0​
5​
15​
0.88​
20​
53​
Off 12V
0​
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,956 Posts
Those figures look about right , mine starts at 11.9 /12 volts & drops to 10.4 volts when cranking.
She fires straight into life & the voltage immediately sits at 13.9 volts there after.
What your seeing is how much power the battery uses just to spin the starter motor over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
its odd, it cranked for the full 20secs with a occasional bite as if it wanted to go, then i stopped, restarted and it went straight away, so voltage seems ok, rpm cranking seems ok, i got fuel rail pressure, i got fuel, gonna redo the compression test, im sure last time one was low but they only need to be around 265psi and 3 were over and 1 was under all within 10%, i didnt take out all the glowplugs just did one at a time so maybe pressure was bleed across and im getting a false reading - there a youtube video and the guys van is doing exactly the same, he traced to egr mixing tube but ive been there and cleaned that, even removed the whole manfold second time round, ive confirmed egr is closed on starting and open when its running, still no error codes (aprats from the ones i generate when uplugging stuff), learning loads on this repair
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
ok back to compression, in order of cylinders 1,2,3,4 ive got 25bar,15bar,23bar,23bar, my original assumption was that 1,3,4 were ok and should still catch but seen other people posting closer to 27bar, haynes workshop manual say no more that 1.5bar difference between cylinders but doesnt actaully state what the minimum should be for starting, as the engine does eventually run it cant be below the minimum required for operation but maybe its maybe its close
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,626 Posts
A new engine is around 400 psi, cylinder 2 is way down, does it misfire when cold, next step is a leak down test to confirm integrity of that cylinder then check piston height to rule out a bent rod.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
A new engine is around 400 psi, cylinder 2 is way down, does it misfire when cold, next step is a leak down test to confirm integrity of that cylinder then check piston height to rule out a bent rod.
I would love to pull it apart and find out exactly is wrong with it but I think this one maybe out of my depth, I'm just not set up for rebuilding engines plus its in the way, time to move it on and put this down to low compression across all cylinders - I can save the next person loads of time and just tell them it needs another engine/rebuild
 
21 - 36 of 36 Posts
Top