[rustygriswold78]

Hi All,

Have a problem with my carlton. It was workig fonr but now it won't start! checked the fuel, seems fine. no petrol going into engine, plugs don't smell of petrol at all.

any ideas?

 

[biffbangpow]

sounds like the fuel pump to me, key the ingnition, and see if you can hear the fuel pump running, or pop the petrol pipe off and see if petrol there.

i use to have a gsi and mine went , not bad to change, dont smoke tho !!!
senators use the same pump, if your looking for 1 outta a scrappy !!

 

[biffbangpow]

might get some help here
http://totalcarlton.com/forums/

 

[Gte16v]

Pump ???

Sounds like either the pump is not working ( this is possibly in the tank - it was on my old Carlton ) or most likely the Fuel Pump/Injection Relay. You can test the relay by placing a fused link between two of the terminals and see if your pump starts making a sound and the car should start.

A quick test of the pump is to give it a direct feed of 12v from the battery.

Can't remember the two terminals off hand but if you have a Haynes manual they are easy to trace ! ( let me know the details of your car and year if you want me to trace them for you. )

Regards,

Paul.

 

[rustygriswold78]

I checked the pump and relay, fuel pumps out before the pressure regulator in the engine bay. There is also no ECU light flashing up when I try starting, could there be something wrong with that?

 

[Steve W]

Firstly is it a 12v? Secondly has it rained there at all?

I had a similar thing on my old Carlton GSi 12v. After about a week of searching for a problem I found the culprit.
On the passenger side under the scuttle panel where the wipers come out from there is an ignition module/ ECU.
Next to this unit is the scuttle drain holes that take rain water away and prevent it from flooding into the car. These drain holes block for a pasttime and when the trapped water gets to a certain level it floods the ignition ECU, and kills it.

If you remove yours and just remove the cover you'll be able to see whether water has got in. The units are about £200 or so from Vauxhall, but I found one in a specialist breakers for about £40. (Was about 6 years ago though.)
Take note of the two letters on your old unit. ie BB/ BC/ BG etc. The one you get must be the same lettering or at worst one out. If not the ignition timing will be miles out even if the car does start. (From experience.)

Hope that helps.

 

[rustygriswold78]

yep, it's a 12v. does that make a difference? it has rained on it, but I can't imagine enough to flood that part of the car. will give it a check though.

does anyone know if there is a relay which controls the fuel injection? it's not a fuse so thought maybe there's a relay that's broken.

 

[DevonGSi]

If the fuels coming out then I think the relay/fuse/pump are ok. Maybe there is no spark? Checked the coil? BE CAREFUL! VERY HIGH VOLTAGE!

Or maybe the regulator has gone and not enough pressure in the system.

To test the pressure, turn the key for a few seconds. Then at the front of the engine on the fule rail is a cap, like a tyre valve cap. Take it off. You should see a tyre valve type looking thing. Get some old rag to catch the spray - hopefully - when you push the pin in with a match or something. If it hisses out you got pressure....

Start looking at electrics to the coil, from the coil to the dizzy.

Is the rotal arm in good condition? Is the cap in good solid condition with no cracks? Are the contacts very warn?

You can also have a problem with leaky injectors which allow feul to seap throuh into the bores. This seaps past the rings and reduces compression. How long do you try and turn the motor over for? Usually this just leads to bad starting but it does start.

Id look at :

Coil - Measure its resistence. WITH ALL IGNITION OFF!!! Not sure what the value should be, but if its ZERO then its knackered.

Coil lead (feed to dizzy) - Again continuity check it. Should get a beep or a light on your multimeter. Check the resistence too.

Dizzy - Check condition as I said before

Rotar Arm - Like I said before.

Hope all of this helps and if any of it is rubbish im sure someone will put me right!

 

[Steve W]

yep, it's a 12v. does that make a difference? it has rained on it, but I can't imagine enough to flood that part of the car. will give it a check though.

does anyone know if there is a relay which controls the fuel injection? it's not a fuse so thought maybe there's a relay that's broken.

It doesn't take much water to flood it. If the water can't drain away then it will just keep on building up until it starts to hit sensitive things.

Also the 24v had a different injection system with that module integreated into the main ECU.

 

[rustygriswold78]

there is a good spark on all leads, checked yesterday. when removing the plug after turning over there is no smell of fuel at all, which makes me think whatever controls the injectors (is this the ignition module or the main ECU?) is for some reason not working.

had some welding done on the sills the other week, but the car ran after that.
Only other thing that's been changed is the electric rad fan switch.

Would a pre-cat 12v have an engine management light on it which could run the paper clip trick? I tried this but nothing happened.

This is so annoying, the car is finally fully road legal and I can't drive it!!!

 

[DevonGSi]

OK. Try the very basic pressure test of releasing the pressure from the fuel rail. There is a fuse and a relay but I have the 24v and probably different and if its not I cant remember which fuse or relay!

Also as in another post on this thread run 12v direct to the feed of the pump to check if you can hear it spinning....

As for the ECU light...When you switch on the ignition do you get an orange light with a basic engine shape in the middle of it light up? Its next to the ABS light on the 24v digi-dash an i think they are more or less the same on the 12v

 

[DevonGSi]

Pinched from somewhere else on the web!

"If it's not the fuel pump relay as others have suggested, then try cleaning the crankshaft sensor - it's held in by a
10mm bolt at the end of the engine block (forget which end, but it's got a thick-ish wire to it). Undo the bolt, pull
it out, and the chances are it'll be quite dirty - a brown/black colour (as a result of carbon deposits at a guess) -
get some emery paper and clean it up so it's a nice shiny silvery colour, put it back in, and watch the starting improve
tremendously.

I did this on my Carlton when it refused to go at all, after having tried new plugs, leads dizzy cap, rotor arm, king
lead, coil, another coil (in case that one was duff), and cleaning the crank sensor cured the problem straight away."

This was for a 2.0l carlton so the crank sensor is in a slightly different place. Front of engine right had side I think just above the toothed wheel. When putting it back make sure the distance is exactly as it was before you took it off.

 

[rustygriswold78]

excuse my ignorance, but what does the crankshaft sensor actually do??


In response to the previous post,there is no orange light with an engine, just the ABS and Gearbox sport mode light. I hope this isn't a bad sign!!

 

[DevonGSi]

Very basically it tells the ECU what position the pistons are in so it knows when to fire the spark plugs. Talking of which the leads havent been taken off at all have they? Just thinking they may of been put back in the wrong order....but you did say it WAS running before so probably not.

 

[rustygriswold78]

noted all tips, will have to wait til the weekend to test these. fingers crossed it works, I've only got 6 weeks left until the start of our jolly to rome. essential endurance testing is needed before then!

thanks for the help!

 

[DevonGSi]

Get a torch and shine it on the dash around the abs light. Can you see the engine symbol when the light ois shining on it? Hopefully the bulb has just gone and the ECU hasnt gone pop!

Have you been doing anything in or around the drivers foot well? The ECU is behind the kick panel on the right hand side by the throttle pedal. Just wondering if its connection has become loose. But its clipped into the ECU with like a lever set up so sould be ok. My be worth a check tho.

So as a recap...

Check the fuel pump/relay first.
You say you have checked for spark. and got it.
The lack of ECU light worries me.
Check cam sensor.
Also check the connections to the thottle position sensor, knock sensors (if the 12v has them!), the connection to the AFM. Clean them all!

 

[DevonGSi]

Another thought....Im not sure but are carltons fitted with that fuel cut off switch which activates when they get a shunt in the @rse? I think there is. Cant check mine as its in the garage getting sorted but if my memory is correct and it may not be look behind the boot liner on the right hand side. Look for a push button. If there is one push it back in and try it....I may be confusing this with a Sierra (cough spit!) I used to have but that was under the spare wheel and used to go off just by dropping in the spare!

 

[rustygriswold78]

ok, the car is at my sister's house and I got my Nephew to give it a turn this morning just on the off chance and it came back to life first go.

Don't know what was stopping it all weekend, but it's fine now. maybe the car is alive and it has issues with what I'm going to do with it.

 

[DevonGSi]

Sounds like Steve W was on the button with the rain. Maybe its dryed out now? Did your nephew notice the ECU light?

Bloody annoying....

 

[rustygriswold78]

annoying indeed!!

I'll have to check the ECU light at the weekend.

Thanks for the tips all.

Fingers crossed it won't happen again.