MoonAndStar

[pajero1]

Sold an engine to this chap and agreed to deliver it for him, even offered Hal a guarantee with the engine as i know its a good 1 as i had planned to drop it into another car but ended up selling it. Got a a family member to take it to the garage for him and he refused to pay, didnt offer my sis a drink and refused to pay her fuel costs.

[stuboy]

please pm him a link to this thread before the mods come along and tell you too.

[pajero1]

already done cheers anyway

[MoonAndStar]

Ok just to let everyone know my side to the story.

Alan had offered this engine to me. I had asked him about what was rebuilt and he gave me the list. I asked him who had rebuilt it (whether it was him or someone else). He told me there were no receipts and said that he could NOT guarantee it but said it was a good engine. I took his word and agreed on getting the engine delivered to the garage.

I initially said 12pm would be best. He said 8am would be better for him. I then told him that the garage opened at 9am so it would be best if he was there at 9.15-9.30am. On the day I checked my messages on VxON at around 6.30am. There were no messages so I gathered he was coming down. I arrived at the garage just before 9am. I waited for two hours until 11am. I told my employers that I would be at work at 11am (thought I'd give myself some time to get back home and then get to work). I decided to leave because he had not turned up as agreed. I checked my messages again and he had sent a message at 7.56am stating that he had got up late. This was immediately discouraging and already a loss to myself as I was waiting around. I rang him before I went to work and he confirmed that his sister was on her way down.

While at work I received a call from my mechanic stating the engine had arrived. He had told me the engine looked very poorly maintained and some of the wiring looked badly repaired. My mechanic advised me not to go ahead with the purchase as it did not fulfil Alan's description. I told my mechanic to let Alan's sister know that he could ring me.

Alan did ring me eventually and I had immediately explained what had gone wrong. Despite already not sticking to the time his sister was supposed to be there, he did NOT tell me the engine looked tatty, nor did he initially state of any kind of guarantee. Alan expressed that he was an honest person and that his feedback on VxON reflected on this. However, if he had provided pictures and/or if he had been 100% honest with the OVERALL condition of the engine, I would have considered it before hand rather than inconveniencing anybody.

Alan realised that I was not impressed with the condition of the engine. I repeatedly told him that I would stick to my mechanic's professional opinion because I know that he is looking out for my best interests. Alan then suggested that he would guarantee it and if it went wrong 'we could sort something out'. I gathered that if the engine is as good as he described it to be, he WOULD have initially said that he could guarantee it. I wasn't confident with the situation and told Alan I will not be taking the engine.

Alan then became abusive with his language calling me a 'F*cking Tw*t', a 'little d*ck head' and made numerous comments about my mechanic saying that he didn't know what he was talking about. Alan then suggested I should give his sister £50 for petrol money. After his total disrespect, I didn't think he disserved any form of compensation regardless of who delivered the engine down.

Alan had also threatened me saying, "I'll get the moneys worth out of you if I see you at a Show, I'll make sure you know I'm there". I can understand his annoyance, however threatening me is totally out of order. He did NOT give ALL details of the engine. I was only told it had been rebuilt. He could have saved himself the hassle. He mentioned that he was going to use the engine for another car. If this was the case then he shouldn't have attempted to sell it.

Alan seemed to stress excuses of personal matters several times, which have no relevance to myself (I wish not to enclose any information about what these matters were as they are of his personal business and no one elses). I felt as though he was trying to make me feel guilty because of what he was going through. He made it seem as he was the ONLY person loosing out. First of all he should have been 100% honest with the engine, second his sister should have been on time. I was meant to start work at 7.30am. I got there at around 11.30am.

I would like to emphasise that I am NOT a time waster nor am I an unreasonable member of this forum site. I know there are many members on here which know of me and several of whom I have bought parts off with absolutely no problems.

In this case, I felt that Alan could have been a lot more detailed about what I was buying. He could have been a lot more sensible with his comments towards me.

I am dissapointed with the way things went especially considering how it was with a member of this forum.

I have nothing further to comment.

[LSI]

From a completly neutral point of view...

It's really your own responsibility to request photos Hal, if none are provided, especially if after agreeing to buy the engine you then decide not to based on the visual analysis of it, not your own either but someone elses, from what I understand you never actually seen the engine yourself?

Secondly, my engine looks a bit tatty too, but that in no way reflects the condition of it or the maintenance and general upkeep of the engine, the aesthetics of an engine that's been pulled out of a 10+ year old car and exposed to all the elements is seldom pristine, but that doesn't mean that the mechanical workings of the engine are not in good working order.

If I'm being completly honest here, in my personal opinion you dismissed the engine too quick, should have asked for photos of the engine beforehand and should have seen the engine yourself before dismissing it, the deal was done with you ateotd, not your mechanic, regardless of how qualified he may be. And whilst I understand that the use of abusive language over the phone is not acceptable I think I can maybe understand why Alan and his sister are a little ticked off. You buy an engine on the basis that it's in good mechanical order, and you never gave it a chance to see if it was regardless of a 'handshake warranty', if aesthetics are an issue you should have asked for photos and done so before a deal was arranged and especially before the engine was delivered.

Bottom line is Alan described the engine as 'Good working condition' (??) and yet it's been dismissed before even turned over or pressure tested or anything on the way it looks. From a neutral point of view if I was the seller I'd be a bit annoyed about that too, because there's no evidence that the engine is NOT in good working condition.

It may well be that now you don't want the engine and wish to look for something that to you looks a bit better maintained (and I stress 'looks' here), in which case that's fair enough, but I urge you to request photos and ask more questions in future before a deal in principle is aranged.

Abusive phone conversations and bad timing aside, Alan kept up his end of the deal by delivering the engine, and you dismissed that engine which was described as a good runner, before it was even run... In my HONEST opinion the least acceptable thing to do is refund the transportation costs and then have no further business with it.

And I have written all that without considering who the 2 members are, so it's completly unbias and for right or for wrong it is my opinion on the matter as a neutral. I'm sorry Hal, I know that's not what you will have wanted to hear, but that's my take on it :(

[Envoy CDX]

To be fair, if Alan did say that, I doubt he'd post this thread here...

[TheMorphiuz]

Hmmmm... Interesting...

- Engine was delivered late - inconvenient, but take the engine anyway and don't pay as much for the transport

- Engine 'looks a bit rough', badly repaired wiring... Get the thing in and try it... My engine looks like it's been buried in horse shite for a couple of years, still runs well though! You've bought an engine without seeing or hearing it run first... BIG no-no! BUT you've taken the word of the seller that it's good even though he's initially said it can't be guaranteed... This is no reason not to pay. More questions should've been asked if you can't get to see the engine running!

At this point, Hal is in the wrong and should pay for the engine even if he doesn't pay the petrol to deliver it... Possibly an expensive mistake to learn from.

- When the deal is refused by Hal after delivery, Pajero got abusive and threatening... If this is true and Hal can provide some evidence of this, I would personally consider this matter closed already... You don't do business by threatening people, who do you think you are, a Mafia don or something? If it's true, you have lost ALL credibility in this case!


I still can't beleive the mechanic practically wrote the thing off before he'd even taken a proper look at it!






Hey Matt... VxON's Official Jury? :p

[Envoy CDX]

I still can't beleive the mechanic practically wrote the thing off before he'd even taken a proper look at it!


didn't want the work is probably more the truth of it...

[VauxMad_Kris]

im sorry here but i totally agree with LSI on this one. you should of still honoured the agreement or atleast payed for the petrol. if you are so concerend about the looks of a engine you should of requested pictures. just cus a engine is dirty does not mean its knackered in any shape or form.

i can understand the sellers anger with this issue as im sure everyone else would of being in the same situation.

[Mat]

or atleast payed for the petrol.

this i do agree with, seems you did jump the gun.

If the other party did become abusive then imho they are out of order, disputes are not won or settled on abuse, that said, i think i may have had something to say on the matter too but, and its a big but, i would of chose my words more carefully.

With that set aside, forget the engine, remember a third party here has gone the loser, and thats the guys sister, if anything is going to be settled in this case i do think a contribution should be made towards her petrol of some kind and that as far as i can see should close the dispute.

Party A still has an engine, party B is still looking for an engine, party C is out of pocket and no fuel, this i believe is as far as vxon should be involved, please let common sense prevail.

[goonas]

didn't want the work is probably more the truth of it...

You are neither qualified or have the knowledge to make that comment.

[MoonAndStar]

I know I said I wouldn't comment further, but I have to say a few things.

I'd have given the engine a go if the guarantee was there in the first place. After being abusive and threatening he then provides the guarantee (as if he wanted rid of it). I understand on my part I could have requested more but as a seller he has to give all details. I was mislead, and it is as simple as that.

If he was more liberal about it he would have got a form of compensation, but there is no way after an out an out threat that I would. I can't proove what he said because obviously it was during the conversation, he knows he said it but then again he can deny it and it'll be my word against his.

I've lost 50% of my feedback rate, and I believe it will have an effect on what people think about me. I may have lost a good engine, but then thats my lost. I had a verbal warning from work for 1st of all turning up late as well as loss of earnings. This shows on my part that I lost more than I wanted to. It's not my fault the engine turned up late, nor is it that he didn't provide a guarantee in the first place.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I understand people may side with Alan, at the end of the day nothing anyone says will make a difference to what has happenned.

Im still feeling upset about how it all happenned, and the fact that it was with a member on VxON makes it worse.

[pajero1]

I appologise to Hal for being a little abusive but when i get a load of phone calls when im with my g/f in the a+e dept at hospital in a very bad way, also the fact of our 7 week old boxer pup in intensive care at the animal hospital, i did not need the extra hassle of this deal not going thru.

i had offered Hal a guarantee of the engine being a good one from day 1, the main person i have felt sorry for in all of this is my sister and niece who travelled down from cheshire for nothing and is now 70 out of pocket for her fuel and food. If Hal had of given her 50 towards her fuel i would have been happy and would not have needed to open a dispute. If any of the mods wish to know the main reason i was a bit off please pm me and i will explain

[pajero1]

The wiring was never mentioned while i was on the phone with Hal but as its not needed anyway cant see his agrument there

[mike_bristol83]

I may be out of line [ happens a lot lately ] but if you feel your sister is the one that has been done as such , then why not give her some money Towards her costs ?
i would feel inclined to do this as matter of course !

[pajero1]

I may be out of line [ happens a lot lately ] but if you feel your sister is the one that has been done as such , then why not give her some money Towards her costs ?
i would feel inclined to do this as matter of course !

This i have done today just feel grieved at the fact a member on here can be the way Hal was over this engine

[Twist]

Again nothing to do with me.... But I cannot see anything VXON can do about this. Think you both need to personally sort it out If not let it go.

[pajero1]

Again nothing to do with me.... But I cannot see anything VXON can do about this. Think you both need to personally sort it out If not let it go.

The point i am making is i would not trust this buyer unless coughs up the cash 1st, i have never had a problem with anyone else on here when it comes to selling or buying things.

[Twist]

The point i am making is i would not trust this buyer unless coughs up the cash 1st, i have never had a problem with anyone else on here when it comes to selling or buying things.

I see what your saying I thnik enough has been said on his feedback

[FRATSAX]

if it was me and i had doubts id have arranged to take the engine and given her fuel costs with the agreement that if it was a "good runner" the rest would be sent by cheque.

[pajero1]

Still no further forward with this

[MoonAndStar]

EDIT: Personal matters have just arrisen. I doubt I will be able to come online within the next couple of weeks.

Despite what I think, I am going to PM Alan and sort this out, for the sake any further inconvenience for the both of us and for the sake of the site and it's members. I don't believe members on this site should have this much of a misunderstanding and think it's only fair we come to an agreement on this.

[Mat]

Alan.

If you want any conclusion from this i suggest you go to the small claims court.

Can i also suggest to anyone dealing with MoonAndStar to get payment before the good are delivered, i personally would hate to travel any distance for him to turn around and say he doesn't want the goods.

[FRATSAX]

can even do it online https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

[cavwebmaster]

I don't think the small claims court will be viable as its more a matter of honour between the two people involved.

[Thestig]

I think that it wasnt very well organised, a time when both partys had there own time besides what happend would of made things alot easier for both! thats just my opinion.:coke:

[VauxMad_Kris]

well at the end of the day photos should of been asked for. if the buyer was unhappy for what ever reason then at the very minimum should of payed for fuel costs. i do hope that this does not go to small claims and i hope that they can find it between themselves to settle this disagreement.

[pajero1]

We have just agreed on Hal paying me 40 in way of settling this dispute, which he has just paid. could a mod please close this thread

[PVO_Dave]

Done, Dispute closed.